Talk:2021 Nangeroni Meeting on John the Baptist (online)

The John the Baptist we

At the beginning of this conference, which is the major conference ever devoted specifically to John the Baptist, I would like to remind us the John of Baptist we have received from tradition, from visual arts, literature, music, cinema, and finally ad defined in the history of scholarly research.

John the Baptist is not what we could call a neglected minor character. He was remembered in Jewish sources as Josephus and the Josippon) as a good man. He was honored as a saint and relative and precursor of Jesus by Christians, and celebrated by Muslims as one of the main prophets.

See Relics of John the Baptist.

Many churches and mosques in the Middle East as well as in Europe offered relicts of his for the veneration of the believers; Here we see only some of these places

See John the Baptist (art)

In Christian iconography, John the Baptist emerged from the Middle Ages as a full-fledged and complex character, with a detailed biography based on scripture, hagiography, and patristic literature. Between the fourteenth and the sixteenth centuries, Famous artists such as Giotto, Andrea Pisano, Filippo Lippi, Domenico Ghirlandaio, Andrea del Sarto, dedicated great cycles to the life of John the Baptist. These cycles came to include up to 20 episodes, covering all aspects of John's life: his birth, his childhood, his ministry, his relation with Jesus, and his death. No other New Testament character, besides Jesus and Mary of Nazareth, received so much attention.

A visual bioraphy

(1) The traditional Christian biography of John the Baptist begins with the angel Gabriel announcing his birth to his father Zacharias, a Jewish priest who served in the Temple of Jerusalem. Since Zacharias initially replied with some doubts, he was struck dumb until the day of his son's birth and could communicate to others only in writing. As the son of a priest, John will be born a priest. (see Gospel of Luke.)

(2) The next episode is the Visitation of Mary, in which we learn that John's mother Elizabeth was Mary's sister. Both women were pregnant; John and Jesus were cousins. Mary came to support her sister.

(3) Generally, Mary was believed to have left before the birth of John the Baptist but in the Golden Legend (she "did the office and service to receive St. John Baptist when he was born") and more explicitly in the Historia Scholastica ("the Blessed Virgin was the first to lift him up"), Mary was said to be present at the birth of John, as in this fresco by the Salimberni Brothers's in Urbino. In the same painting we see that On the eighth day, John was circumcised ( a scene very seldom represented) and Zacharias confirmed in writing Elizabeth's decision to call the boy "Yohanan" (see Naming of John the Baptist). It was at this moment that Zecharias regained his speech.

(4) Whether it happened before or after the birth of John, Mary left before the birth of her son Jesus at Bethlehem. Scripture is silent on the childhood of John and Jesus, but Christian tradition speculated that John and Jesus first met in Jerusalem as babies (many portraits of the Holy Family include John as a child and his mother Elizabeth; see Child John the Baptist with Jesus).

(5) John and Jesus would meet again on the return of the Holy Family from Egypt. John and Jesus are now boys.

(6) Here there are two different variants of the story. According to St Peter of Alexandria (3rd cent.), Herod the Great sentenced Zacharias to death for refusing to reveal the whereabouts of the Holy Family, while John and Elizabeth fled into the desert. The most common version however was different: John as a child was raised in the House of Zechariah and Elizabeth and then, after receiving the blessing of his parents, left his house to live alone in the wilderness.

(7) Whatever happened, Christian traditions agree that John grew up in the wilderness ever since he was a boy. He spent his entire childhood and youth there. There are numerous artistic representation of John as a boy.

(8)Starting from the 16th cent., it became common to portray John rather as a young adult. See Young John the Baptist in the Desert.

(9) Now an adult, John the Baptist began his public ministery. See Preaching of John the Baptist. He preached to the crowds, and confronted the Sadducees and Pharisees.

(10) And of course he baptized the penitent, even though this is not frequently portrayed in the arts.

(11) The Baptism of Jesus was a theophany in which his messianic identity was revealed for the first time. John testified of Jesus as the Lamb of God before his disciples; see Here is the Lamb of God.

(12) John rebuked Herod Antipas, questioning the legitimacy of his marriage to Herodias. He was arrested and imprisoned. There he received the visit of his disciples, and sent messengers to Jesus.

(13) It was a complex plot of Herodias, that eventually led to the beheading of John the Baptist, as recounted in the Gospel of Mark and in the Gospel of Matthew. Herodias took advantage of the promise of reward that Herod Antipas made to her daughter (Salome) for dancing in his presence at his birthday party. Prompted by her mother, Salome asked for the head of the Baptist. John was beheaded and his head given on a platter to Salome, who presented it to her mother.

(14) The beheading of John was first representated a s a marginal scene, became one if the favorite and most dramatic scenes in the Liufe of John the Baptist.

(14-15) According to some versions Salome also brought it before Herod, in other versions it was a servant who did it.

John's disciples were allowed to take the Baptist's body and buried it.

Given such glorious premises in visual art and hagiography, it should be expected that John the Baptist would flourish as one of main characters in modern biblical fiction, from the renaissance to the present. But it was not the case.

See John the Baptist (literature)

It was the bizarre circumstances of his death (as narrated in Mark and Matthew) rather than the many accomplishments of his life, that first and mostly attracted the interest of playwrights and novelists. This confined John to a quite marginal role in a drama where the real protagonists were others: Herod Antipas, Herodias and Salome. Soon John's name disappeared even from the titles of plays and novels.

See John the Baptist (music)

With the success of the oratorio San Giovanni Battista by Alessandro Stradella in 1675, John the Baptist seemed to have found at last his most fitting role as a "voice" singing the praises of God. But even in music John was soon overshadowed by a mightier character, Salome, who revealed much greater potential as a singer and a dancer. She (not he) was the protagonist of the famous operas by Jules Massenet (Hérodiade, 1881) and Richard Strauss (Salome, 1905).

See Salome (dance).

In the Salomania that exploded in Europe and the United States in the early 20th century, John's role was limited to being the object and the victim of Salome's lustful desire. See Salome (dance).

See Salome (cinema).

Born in such a context, cinema has followed a similar pattern. John was featured in almost every major film on Jesus of Nazareth, with only a few notable exceptions. And in numerous movies he was the innocent victim of the intrigues of Herod Antipas, Herodias and Salome. He also appeared in supporting roles in movies on Peter, Mary of Nazareth, and Mary Magdalene. Among the "minor" characters of the New Testament, he is the only one to whom not a single film has been dedicated. It is as if he could not escape his eternal destiny of being overshadowed by someone mightier than he. Not only in the Gospel narratives but in the reception history of his character, John always saw somebody else rise to fame while he had to decline.

See John the Baptizer (2009 Hansen), novel

Only in the last decades have there been a few attempts by novelists to revisit his biography, the most ambitious of which is that of American author Brooks Hansen in 2009. Too little and too late to establish John the Baptist as a major protagonist of biblical fiction.

See John the Baptist (research)

Neglected No such fortune did John enjoy in scholarshio John the Baptist has always been much spoken and written, but was seldom studied in his own terms.

The first studies specifically devoted to John the Baptist at the end of 18th centuries were works of Christian theologians in England who were interested in reaffirming the reliability of the Gospel narratives on John the Baptist.

Only at the beginning of the 20th century the critical study began, when the question arose of who the historical John was and form-criticism suggested the possibility to go back from Christian sources to the “original” John.

The article Kaufmann Kohler wrote for the Jewish Encyclopedia can be taken of evidence of those early debates

Kohler claimer that John was (a) Jewish (not Christian), in particular and Essene. Kohle (b) he viewed the Messiah and the who would come as judge to baptize them with fire-- —a conception of the Messiah which is widely different from the one which saw the Messiah in Jesus. Kohler conclusion was that John was (c) Jesus was a disciple of John (d) He was reinterpreted as a Christian by the disciples of Jesud; (d) his movement continued after his deat; there is a continuity between John and the Mandeans

Of course there were scholars who remained skeptical about the possibility of recovering the

Joshua Starr (he was also “un-Jewish”)

It remains for the historian to recognize that the actual Palestinian John has undergone such a radical transformation in our Gospel that one finds it impossible to determine the historical personality and the concrete nature of his public effort” (Starr 236). “the transformation has progressed so far that it has carried the Gospel-writer far away from Judaism and its homeland.” (Starr 237)

Most scholars however remained confident in the possibility of recovering the historical John. The first studies were published dealing the the Q Gosepl Studies on the Q gospel, major attention to Baptist movement and ritalu of immersion in Second Temple Judaism

Two works by Wilhelm Brandt (1910) -- Joseph Thomas (1935) on the Baptist movements

Bacon 1929 : John “shows a moral revolt against priestcraft and legalism, but there is nothing specifically Christian about it (p.42) “the disciples of John” continued to form important groups, and these were by no means all so readily won over to the Church as that described by Luke at Ephesus. (p.46)

The discovery of the Dead Seas Scrolls the emphasis focused on the relation between John the Baptist and Qumran (and the Essene movement) – a relation that -as have seen – predated the finding of the Scrolls but that now can benefit from the publiscation tof firts Scrolls.

Can we recover a Jewish John the Baptist

The goale of theis conference are quite ambitious. The first has being accomplished, to bring together alla the main specialists in the field. In the opening meeting we will ask some of the authors who have dealt with the figure of to present theur work and thier view of John the Baptist.

Then we will move to This is the reason we will not have a seminar format. No papers but some introductory oral statements who will led to an open discussion among participants. We have already published enough, so-to-speak. It is time that we pause and discuss the result of pur research.

We will start with a survey of the reception of john the Baptist with Second Temple Judaism, Early Christianity and Islam.

We will deal then with some specific topics: The reletion with the Temple, with Qumran, and the Essene movement, the problem of his bptism for forveness of sins. the probem of purity, the political implication of his message.

Finally we will explore the relationshopbertwee John and Jesus, startin with the way in which it is presented in each of the Gosples and then ecploring thehypothesis of continuity or discontinuity

Personally I see three major

As always in the tradition of the Enoch Seminar, We will have plent of time for open and consgructive discussion, recap session at the beginning of each day and a final wrap-up session with all the panelists and participants.

John the Baptist between Prophecy and Apocalypticism: His Eschatological and Messianic Vision

Can John's preaching be interpreted in the light of Second Temple Jewish Apocalypticism? Can the Apocalypticism be traced back to the historical John or is it the result of the reinterpretation that the Synoptics provide? How is John to be located within the various forms of Jewish prophetism and revelatory practices? Was John a “mystic”? What was John’s eschatological outlook? Was his message mostly/all about judgment or was he first and foremost a prophet of restoration? Did he talk about the kingdom of God? Who was the Coming/Stronger One he announced? (The Davidic Messiah? A superhuman Messiah, e.g. the Son of Man? YHWH?) What did John think of himself? Did he claim to be the Elijah redivivus?

Cannot attend:

@ Knut Backhaus <knut.backhaus@kaththeol.uni-muenchen.de> <cannot attend>
@ Barrie Wilson, York University Toronto, Canada <barrie@yorku.ca>

Can attend:

Ian Werrett 4, 5 or 7.

(-) Who is my John the Baptist? Eight Contemporary Scholarly Portraits.

Joel Marcus
Joan Taylor
Edmondo Lupieri
Gabriele Boccaccini
Albert Baumgarten
Rivka Nir
Robert Webb

(1) John the Baptist in Second Temple Judaism (Josephus, the Life of Adam and Eve, Enoch)

Steve Mason (Josephus), Johannes Tromp (Adam & Eve), Daniele Minisini (Enoch), <Kelley Coblentz Bautch>

Alternative: Levison (esperto anche lui di Vita A&E),

(2) John the Baptist in Christian sources (Gospels, Acts, Pseudo-Clementines)

Michael Daise, Clare Rothschild, Giovanni Bazzana, <Francesco Pieri> <Prinzivalli>

Alternative: se Rothschild preferisce altrove allora Dennert oppure Taylor (se preferisce qui per parlare del racconto dell'infanzia lucano); Backhaus se Bazzana preferisce altrove

(3) John the Baptist in Gnosticism, Mandaeism, Islam

James McGrath (Mandaeans), Alberto Camplani (Gnosticism), Caroline Lemmens (Islam)

Alternative: Lupieri

(4) John the Baptist, the Temple, and the Priesthood

Eric Noffke?, Edmondo Lupieri?, Lawrence Schiffman? Ian Werrett

Alternative: Schiffman

(5) John the Baptist, Qumran, and the Essenes

'Cecilia Wassen, Albert Baumgarten, Corrado Martone, Adolfo Roitman

Alternative: non so se la Taylor abbia voglia di parlare di questo, nel caso sostituire con Marcus o Baumgarten (Noffke lo lascerei nella sessione su tempio e sacerdozio, perché ottimo contraltare a Lupieri)

(6) John between Prophecy and Apocalypticism: his Eschatological and Messianic Vision

<Backhaus> Levison, Robert Webb, Adela Yarbro Collins <Joel Marcus?>,

Alternative: Backhaus, Levison (esperto su profetismo, pneumatologia) - NB: penso che il titolo "between prophecy and apocalypticism" rispecchi meglio le questioni da discutere

(7) John and the Law: Purity, and Other Halakhic Matters

Benjamin Snyder, Hannah Harrington, Thomas Kazen <Vered Noam?>

Alternative: Lupieri (so che era scontato x la halakhah, ma c'è più bisogno di lui su tempio e sacerdozio), Taylor, Webb, Schiffman

(8) John and Politics

Robert Myles, Nathan Shedd (esperto di decapitazione), Erin Roberts (esperta di filosofia morale ellenistica)

Alternative: Bazzana?

(9) John's Baptism and the Forgiveness of Sins

Jonathan Lawrence, Gabriele Boccaccini, Jonathan Klawans, <Joel Marcus>

Alternative: Marcus (se preferisce qui, dato che insiste molto sul fatto che il battesimo+lo Spirito rimettessero i peccati), Webb, Snyder, Taylor

(10) John and the Historical Jesus

Federico Adinolfi, Sara Parks?, Darrell Bock, Brian Dennert, Dale Allison?

Alternative: Wassen (se preferisce parlare qui, dato che presto uscirà un suo libro su Gesù); Taylor (se vorrà parlare qui del racconto lucano dell'infanzia), altrimenti - nel caso Dennert non partecipasse o volesse collocarsi altrove - chiedere al JSHJ di metterci qualcuno del loro board: Dale Allison sarebbe meraviglioso, ma anche Helen Bond, James Crossley, Thomas Kazen...

(-) Final panel [Gabriele Boccaccini, chair]: Joel Marcus, Larry Schiffman, Joan Taylor? ... (Here we can have 5-6 panelists)

Johannes Tromp <j.tromp@let.leidenuniv.nl>
Jack Levinson <jlevison@mail.smu.edu>

DAY 1

(-) Who is my John the Baptist? Eight Contemporary Scholarly Portraits.

Joel Marcus
Joan Taylor
Edmondo Lupieri
Gabriele Boccaccini
Albert Baumgarten
Rivka Nir
Webb
Backhaus

(a mio personalissimo parere bisognerebbe inserire Webb e Backhaus – sempre se partecipano –; e volendo anche Nir, dato che ha appena pubblicato una monografia. E se così diventano troppi, lascerei da parte McGrath – ed eventualmente Baumgarten) [Federico]

Sono d’accordo con Federico. I lavori di Webb e Backhaus costituiscono a tutti gli effetti degli importanti “scholarly portraits” della storiografia recente. Allo stesso modo il volume della Nir, per quanto uno possa esserne in accordo o disaccordo, si configura come il più recente elemento di discussione. [Daniele]

(1) John the Baptist, the Temple, and the Priesthood

Eric Noffke, Federico Adinolfi, Edmondo Lupieri, (Albert Baumgarten?), (Lawrence Schiffman?)

(2) John the Baptist, Qumran, and the Essenes

Joel Marcus, Joan Taylor, Gabriele Boccaccini (Lawrence Schiffman?)

Io qui ci vedrei bene in qualche forma, anche se il suo nome non era ancora uscito, il “nostro” Corrado Martone. [Daniele]

DAY 2

(3) John the Baptist and Jewish Apocalypticism (Enoch literature)

Gabriele Boccaccini, Daniele Minisini, Eric Noffke

Questa sessione per me è la più “comoda” e mi ci trovo molto bene. Inoltre, quando si parla di apocalittica giudaica, credo che sia sempre utile e necessario sentire cosa ha da dire John Collins. Certo, non è propriamente uno specialista di GB, ma ha indubbiamente una conoscenza più che approfondita dei fenomeni apocalittici. Qui ci vedo bene anche specialisti di letteratura enochica come Stuckenbruck, ma anche VanderKam o Bock (che vedo nella lista dei partecipanti). [Daniele]

(4) John as a Prophet: his Eschatological and Messianic Vision

Gabriele Boccaccini, Daniele Minisini, Eric Noffke
Robert Webb, Joel Marcus, Knut Backhaus (Adela Yarbro Collins), (Cecilia Wassen)

(Vedo bene Adela anche nelle sessioni 7 e 9, anche se sono già molto “affollate”) [Daniele]

(5) John and Politics

Robert Myles, Joel Marcus, Nathan Shedd (specialista della decapitazione di GB), (Albert Baumgarten?), (Giovanni Bazzana?)

DAY 3

(6) John and the Law: Purity, and Other Halakhic Matters

Edmondo Lupieri, Cecilia Wassen, Benjamin Snyder (Joan Taylor), (Jonathan Klawans)*

C’è una certa sovrapposizione tra questa sessione e la seguente per quanto riguarda il battesimo: in generale gli specialisti sul tema battesimo & purità sono Taylor, Klawans e Snyder (di Snyder sta per uscire la tesi di dottorato proprio sul battesimo di Giovanni, per Mohr Siebeck – so che Isaac Oliver è informato sulla sua ricerca), mentre sul tema battesimo & perdono dei peccati (sotto) vedo bene, oltre a Lei e a Marcus, Klawans (oppure sempre Snyder o Taylor o anche Webb).

(7) John's Baptism and the Forgiveness of Sins

Gabriele Boccaccini, Joel Marcus, Jonathan Klawans, (Benjamin Snyder), (Joan Taylor), (Bob Webb)

Concordo di nuovo con Federico. Queste due sessioni, seppur distinte, hanno molti punti di contatto. Lupieri lo vedo molto bene nella sessione (6), nonostante i suoi importanti lavori sulle tematiche della sessione (10). Tuttavia penso che il suo contributo possa costituire una buona base per la discussione delle questioni halakhiche, soprattutto insieme alla Taylor.

(8) John and the Historical Jesus

Federico Adinolfi, Cecilia Wassen, Darrell Bock (Joan Taylor)

DAY 4

(9) The Memory and Legacy of John in Judaism, Christianity (Gospels, Acts, Josephus)

Michael Daise, Rivka Nir, Joan Taylor (Brian Dennert), (Edmondo Lupieri)

So che alla Taylor piacerebbe affrontare il racconto dell’infanzia lucano, ma potrebbe occuparsi anche di Flavio Giuseppe

Per quanto riguarda la testimonianza di Flavio Giuseppe su GB c’è anche Claire Rothschild. Anche Lettieri, se vogliamo invitarlo, ha scritto un interessante articolo sulla ritrattazione ontologica dell’incarnazione del Figlio nel Prologo di Giovanni. Per quanto ardito l’articolo è molto ben strutturato e credo che possa essere foriero di discussioni [Daniele]

(10) John, the gnostics, and the Mandeans (Pseudo-Clementine literature, Gnostic Literature, Mandaeism, , Qur'an)

James McGrath (Mandeans), Alberto Camplani (Gnosticism), Caroline Lemmens (Islam) - Knut Backhaus, Edmondo Lupieri (Joel Marcus),

In questa sessione potremmo inserire in qualche modo anche Alberto Camplani che si è occupato dalla ricezione di Giovanni in contesti gnostici, marcioniti e orientali (Siria e dintorni)

(-) Wrap-up session. A final panel of specialists discussing the results of the conference.

NOTE

Yonatan Adler< Ariel University, Ritual Baths <yonatan.adler@yale.edu>

Knut Backhaus e Robert Webb e direi anche Benjamin Snyder e Nathan Shedd che hanno da poco completato delle tesi di dottorato rispettivamente su battesimo e purità rituale (https://place.asburyseminary.edu/ecommonsatsdissertations/1429/ ) e sulla decapitazione del Battista (https://research.stmarys.ac.uk/id/eprint/3503/ )

Poi non so... c'è Jaroslav Rindoš che qualche anno fa ha pubblicato un buona monografia sul Battista ed Elia in Luca: http://www.slavu.sav.sk/en/en_rindos.php

Session 9 -

Michael Daise "'The Voice of One Calling in the Wilderness': Reflections on John the Baptist and Isaiah 40:3."

-) Who is my John the Baptist? Eight Contemporary Scholarly Portraits.

Joel Marcus
Joan Taylor
Edmondo Lupieri
Gabriele Boccaccini
Albert Baumgarten
Rivka Nir
Webb
Backhaus

(1) John the Baptist in Second Temple Judaism (Josephus, the Life of Adam and Eve, Enoch?)

Steve Mason (Josephus), Johannes Tromp (Adam & Eve), Daniele Minisini (Enoch)

(2) John the Baptist in Christian sources (Gospels, Acts, Church Fathers)

Michael Daise, Giovanni Bazzana,

(3) John the Baptist in Gnosticism, Mandeans, Islam

James McGrath (Mandeans), Alberto Camplani (Gnosticism), Caroline Lemmens (Islam)